Air Celebration, La libération a toujours été là.

        Liberation and consciousness 


 
How do you know that you are liberated?
By the sheer fact of no longer meeting anybody in what, before, seemed to me “to be”, by seeing that there is nowhere any entity, Air or any other - neither in this body, nor in the thoughts or in the experienced emotions - by being unable to find this entity. What then takes place is a liberation from the belief in the existence of a person, whom I would be - who never existed, but who has guided for years this body and mental, like a consistent story, based on a lie, which was in fact a lie about the existence of someone inside this body.

And now, how do know that you are liberated?
First, it’s a question which does not occur, which I am not asking myself. Prior to this state of Liberation, the question which existed was “how to find Liberation?”, and suddenly there is no question left.
 
So, this absence of question, is it one of the signs by which you know you are liberated?
The question is going to be: “who is this “I” who is liberated?” And the disappearance of the “I”, in all its forms, results in the fact that there remains nobody to liberate. And that in fact, Liberation is not about: is this “I” liberated? It is simply about Liberation from the “I”. The “I” disappears, stops, and the imprisonment by the “I” stops. What is happening is more something like this - that is to say, it is not the person who is liberated.
 
Yes, one of your famous predecessors said: “It is not the person who is liberated, it is from the person that one is liberated”…
Completely.
 
So, even in the formulation of my question (how do you know that “you” are liberated?), there is no “you” that can be liberated, since Liberation is never happening to “anybody”… This is why it’s very difficult to interview someone who is Liberated alive, as this is based on the experience lived by someone whom he no longer is!
Exactly!
 
From what are we liberated?
From the illusion of being a person, the illusion of being a soul, the illusion of being a consciousness… Before all, it’s the recognition of consciousness for what it is, that liberates us from consciousness itself. It’s the consciousness that “sticks us” to the person. And it’s the fact of being identified, since it is the very mechanism of consciousness to experiment, the very purpose of consciousness to experiment, just as it is the purpose of mental to carry out reflections, separations…
When consciousness is recognized for what it is, then, there’s no identification with consciousness anymore. Just as it was possible, before living this “Liberation” from consciousness, to have a form of awakening to Self (to the “I Am”) i.e. to place, to transfer the focus of consciousness from the person towards the Being, which leads to detachment. But what makes the difference is really, at a given moment, to recognize consciousness for what it is.
 
Ramesh Balsekar, another man Liberated alive, says that all is Consciousness. But he makes a distinction between the non-manifest consciousness and the manifest consciousness. When you speak about the “recognition of consciousness for what it is”, about which consciousness are you speaking?
I was speaking about the manifest consciousness. When one recognizes the process of manifestation of consciousness, the imprisonment in the projection of consciousness, and the fact that it becomes attached to such or such object (which can be this body, which can be the Being, which can be a tree, or another being with whom one can feel to be in fusion) - all that are processes of manifest consciousness… At some point of time, the very process of the manifestation of consciousness, the way it functions, is being recognized. And as a result, it becomes possible to rest in the not-manifest consciousness, which others call the Absolute. At that moment, there is no longer this process, which I call the “glue” process of consciousness, by which it will systematically “stick” itself. And as long as consciousness is “stuck” to something, one remains dependent on consciousness - whether this something is Beingness (Self) or the person, one remains captive of this “glue”.
 
Do you make a distinction between the mental and the manifest consciousness? In certain teachings, we are often invited to observe the mental mechanism, precisely to be able to dis-identify from it, and to somehow become the observer…
These are two completely different things. Mental is a mechanism related to this body, it belongs to the tools of this body, with some kind of mechanical operation. Observing the mental can indeed help to place oneself within Self, and to observe and distance oneself from what makes the person (i.e. from the mental, the emotions, the body itself). Consciousness is so often mentioned, in lots of teachings and at many levels: awakening, expansion of consciousness, etc. But I had never understood this word before actually “seeing” the consciousness, even though I often used it!
It’s very difficult to put words on what consciousness is, but the mechanism I could perceive is that changing the consciousness support allows to recognize consciousness (or not!). If consciousness is “stuck” to the body, then there is complete identification with the person. If consciousness is “stuck” to the Being, then there is dis-identification from the person, but identification with a much wider “I am”. If consciousness is “stuck” to a tree and that you enter in fusion with this tree, there will be this impression of Communion. And all these changes allow, at some point in time – that will never be decided nor by the consciousness, neither by the person – to recognize consciousness. It’s not a matter of making progress using logic, because following logic would just be a mental progress, meaning consciousness would still be “stuck” to mental. And that is not by sticking consciousness to a logical path that you can unstick consciousness.
Therefore, what’s needed is to accept all upheavals without necessarily looking for their cause, without necessarily being linked to some kind of logic. It’s by accepting to be in the middle of a storm and by letting things be, that at a given moment, without involving any will to recognize consciousness, consciousness is recognized.
It is possible (using many practices, which are innumerable) to pass from the person to the Self, and from there to recognize that the Self itself is part of the illusion. But without trying to find what is behind… afterwards, it does not depend any longer from neither the Self, nor the person. That is coming towards you, and that is the very Essence of what we are. And as long as you look for it, you cannot find it. It’s as if you would be looking forever for your heart around you, you would never see it! At some point, what is inside can never be perceived by tools which go and look towards the outside…
 
That makes me think of a fly on a window. If you focus on the fly, you cannot see the landscape which is at the background, and if you look at the landscape, you cannot see the fly on the window any more…
When you look at the fly, we could say that it’s like being in the person: consciousness looks at the level of the person, the “I”. When looking at the landscape, you don’t see the “I” anymore and you are in the Self, the “I Am”. When one recognizes the principle of focusing on the fly or the landscape, it’s possible to focus neither on the fly, nor on the landscape: to be at the same time both of them, and none of them.
 
Yes, this is the disappearance of focus, and that is why it cannot be apprehended by someone who does not live it yet…
Because for the one who doesn’t live it yet, the only tools to try to apprehend it will be the Self or the mental, that is to say two tools which are focus-based, and which are two ways in which consciousness “sticks” itself…
 
You said before that recognizing the way consciousness operates does not guarantee the access to Liberation - you didn’t speak about it like a pre-requisite. In your case, you went through this step, it’s your experience…
I am being careful not to present my experience as a universal way. There is the recognition of consciousness: “Ah, OK, it is “sticking”… “I am sticking myself here, and sticking myself there…” And at a given moment, in a very short time, just a few seconds: “But, could I not “stick” myself?” Hop, and there appears (that is not the right word)… one finds himself in what you have called the not-manifest consciousness, or the Absolute - by the simple fact of thinking: “so, OK, if I don’t stick it, what’s happening?”
In any case, this is what occurred for me. What followed afterwards is the understanding of so many things that I had read before, and above all, the observation that it’s so simple, so simple! Why has it never been said, that it’s so simple? Why did they transform the research for what we are by Essence into something so difficult? And in a second step, I thought: “How many times have I heard that it was simple!” But in fact, even when I heard that it was simple (or when I was reading that it was simple), even the word “simple” was more complex than the simplicity which has now emerged. And so, there was this Joy, this gratitude, this amusement: “But it’s so simple, light, natural, and effortless! All that fuss for what?!”
 
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